I saw this discussion brought up on a different thread and I though I’d get some more opinions on the matter.
The Beehaw community guidelines describe a place that’s meant to be safe, friendly and encourages people to discuss their ideas in good faith. For the most part I feel like this community lives up to that; users of this instance are generally thoughtful with their responses. However, I don’t feel like that level of quality extends to the users who post from other instances. Responses from those users are more likely to pendantic, overly argumentative, and unhelpful.
Now I may just be an elitist fuck so I’d like to hear your opinions on this. Does Beehaw benefit from federation? Do the community guidelines even matter if they don’t apply to many of the people who engage with this instance? Am I just looking for a reason to complain?
EDIT: This post isn’t a request for Beehaw to defederate btw. I just wanted to discuss the negatives of federation and what we can do to alleviate them :)
I’ve found myself unsubscribing from beehaw communities that I had previously subbed to initially because I find they have a certain style and direction that isn’t balanced enough. Your message posed as a question more or less explains why I feel like that. Now I only see beehaw content when browsing ‘all’ because of it.
Isn’t balanced enough? How do you mean?
Beehaw is dangerously close to group think that shouts down/deletes other viewpoints. There is a difficult to discern line between a view you don’t agree with and what is labeled here as “close minded”.
I myself experienced that when I posed a opposing viewpoint regarding a search for non right wing podcasts. I can understand wanting a podcast without any mention of politics but to say I don’t want to listen to X group because I don’t agree isn’t a positive way to take disagreement.
I have noticed that beehaw tends to shout down people that disagree which is not beneficial. The more you shout down/ignore a group the louder they become. That is the main reason why I think, at least the US, is in the polarized political environment it is in now. We have lost our thought of empathy, discourse and evaluation of ideas different from our own.
A person said they’re looking for a podcast that’s not right wing, you told them that what they want is bad, and then you were surprised to see people react negatively? I’m not going to trawl through your comments to find the exchange, but based on your own description it’s pretty clear why they felt antagonised…
It is okay for people to disagree. That’s completely fine and it’s totally fine for you to make your comment.
I figured people would disagree. That’s par for the course here.
Whats not okay is people making comments like “oh you made a duplicate account”. Why is that? While the person disagrees, which is fine, it shows that there are people who believe just because you are supporting an opposing viewpoint, you must not be a real person or actually only one person with that view.
Should it be moderated? No, not at all. It is just a symptom of the beehaw culture of moderation to bee nice.
I think the main issue is the tone with which an idea is presented, not always the idea itself. I’m open to many viewpoints; in fact, that’s how I learn and understand best. I don’t only want to listen to people who already think like I do.
Some things can’t be compromised on, though. In my opinion, US conservatives have become blatantly bigoted, sexist, and fascist. In the past, one could give them the benefit of the doubt, but they’re not even trying to hide it anymore. I don’t care how they “present” their ideas. When someone tries to explain why tacitly supporting bigotry is okay, it doesn’t matter how eloquently they make their point. They are actively opposed to tolerance, and therefore don’t deserve it.
I think the tone statement is true. There were probably were some ways for me to improve my phrasing.
I go assuming the benefit of the doubt for most if not all posts since they are text only. We can derive a lot of things from body language and actual tone in real life.
Yeah, we can. I came across a study on the role of nonverbal cues in communication. We rely on them much more than you’d expect. It’s not surprising that misunderstandings happen so often when we’ve only got text to go on.
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If you truly feel like you are getting responded to in bad faith, please report the comment. Mods don’t end up seeing everything, and reports help bring our attention to things that may break our be(e) nice rule
Well the moderating is part of the problem. Moderators that delete or restrict comments that aren’t “nice” drives those people that have been moderated into groups that reaffirm their beliefs, however dangerous they may be.
I take a view that even if something isn’t “nice” it should never be moderated unless it advocates for violence against a group or puts endangers someone’s privacy. In life we may find ourselves in conversations or with people we can’t censor or shout down so why would we do it online?
People may ask why I’m still on beehaw and the fact is that I don’t agree with many of the viewpoints advocated here but I have to practice what I preach. If I run away from beehaw and don’t contribute then the community gets sucked in further to group think on a specific viewpoint.
To be clear, you’re explicitly stating here that you are sticking around, despite not agreeing with the ethos, in order to stick to your own ethos, which is the following:
Is that a correct read of what you are saying? Or am I completely off the mark here?
Yes I do disagree with the moderation policy here. However, just because I disagree with it doesn’t mean that I intend to be disrespectful to any individual on this server.
I stay because at least the mods are active, get involved in discussions, and care to be transparent with how operations are run for the instance (the monthly financial reports are great).
Beehaw is my first experience with Lemmy, have I liked all of it? No but the fact that it is federated (as all Lemmy instances are) and transparent, which doesn’t happen for all instances, is refreshing.
Thank you for responding, I think it’s fine to disagree with how we think we can help to solve the problem of toxicity on the internet, so long as you’re still agreeing to be nice when you’re on here.
I don’t have (and never had) a Beehaw account, primarily because I’d rather stay in small servers, so I’m going to have to take your word for this.
If this is true, then another danger is it (community, server, platform, etc) becomes an echo chamber. A place where dissenting views are suppressed and the majority encourages like-minded points of view. Imho, that’s unhealthy.
There’s a middle ground between being an “echo chamber” and being forced to put up with the same 10 different bad-faith bumper-sticker sealion questions over and over again for all eternity.
I come to Beehaw when I’m just dead-dog tired of having the same arguments over and over again, when I’m sick to death of hearing what the alt-right thinks about any given issue, when I’m just fed up having to defend my identity and my beliefs from crypto-facists who think they’re being subtle when they imply I shouldn’t exist and wouldn’t exist if they had their way.
I know what “the other side” thinks. Dear God, I can’t escape hearing what “the other side” thinks, about everything from the international politics of war to beer cans. I’m well aware of the “discussion” they want to have, I’ve had it eighty thousand times over the course of my life and it’s always the same theme and the same tactics lightly reskinned for whatever outrage bait they read about on Facebook last week.
For example, their opinion on “kids getting trans surgery” is exactly the same pile of nonsense as their opinion on “partial-birth abortion” was 25 years ago: “We’re going to take an extreme situation, that almost never actually happens precisely because of how extreme it is, that only ever takes place after months or years of agonizing decision-making between parents and entire teams of professionals with advanced degrees and decades of experience, and pretend like it’s the primary form of this issue and happens on a whim.”
I’m over 40. I’ve heard it all. I know what their opinions are. Fuck, I know what their opinions will be on shit that hasn’t even come up yet, because it never changes. They never shut up about their opinions. So no, I’m not worried about getting into an “echo chamber”. I like finally having a little bit of soundproofing between me and the “(allegedly) silent majority”.
That’s true and I can definitely see the appeal. Sometines it’s just nice to chill with like-minded people and get away from the toxicity of the internet.
It’s a double-edged sword in my experience, though. My local subreddit has been an echo chamber for years now. Politics and complaints. You’ll seldom see a thread where both of those aren’t present. Dissent is also discouraged by the majority through actions (downvotes) and replies. It got so bad i stopped going there for more than a year before the reddit API shitshow. I don’t want to see every single post containing a comment about how our country is a shithole with no hope and it’s better to move to literally any other country. Imagine you’re stuck in a community filled with the “other side”. It’s that bad (at least when I was there).
If Beehaw can maintain a good and positive community then there may not be an issue. Unfortunately, we’re on lemmy and it’s quite easy for bad actors to infiltrate a community unless everyone is vigilant. I hate bigots and discrimination probably as much as you, but I have to admit an echo chamber of the other (extreme) side of the spectrum doesn’t really appeal to me, either. Extremes really aren’t for me. A middle ground, like you said, sounds nice.
Hopefully Beehaw can maintain its standard and stay in the middle. I think that would be my biggest concern if I were a beehaw user. Or even a lemmy user.
It’s possible that I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying, but you’re posting on a topic on a Beehaw community right now.
Yup. I was just commenting on the other poster. I was using his statement since, like I’ve said, I never had a Beehaw account. IDK what goes on in here except for what I see on my ALL feed.